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 Nerf all defences 
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Joined: Thu May 14, 2015 10:05 am
Posts: 236
Post Nerf all defences
I raised the idea in a different thread a few times and seem to have traction on it (i.e. people agreed) so I thought I'd create a thread.

I think the pvp would be a lot more "fun" if the global survability would be lower. I'm suggesting here to nerf all pdef/mdef (or boost all patck/matck/skill powers) and not just nerf cleanse or healers specifically.

The goal we need to achieve is to have healers die rather quickly if they're focused by 2 DDs. (regardless of CC). Right now if you just do 2 daggers vs 1 cardinal, the fight will NEVER end, but it should end rather quickly. That would give us a "baseline".

Once you found out how much pdef/mdef you need to nerf to achieve that, apply the same nerf to all classes (proportionally), this will make everyone weaker, pvp will end faster, healers will need to use the ressurection skill more often instead of 1 time per 10 minutes, and they won't be able to keep their whole party alive just by using group heals and balance life every now and then, because everyone's pdef will be lower.

You might have to tweak mobs after to balance them :P

Advantages of having everyone "die" faster.
-- It will be possible to "wipe" another party much faster.
-- Since pvp will be faster-paced, element of surprise will matter a lot more, if you come from behind or something you can maybe win a fight you were not "supposed" to win. (i.e. outnumbered)
-- It will be much easier to capture wards and castles. At the moment as soon as there's 1 party defending a castle it's almost impossible to capture a ward since you can hardly kill a party that spawns before they reach the outpost or artefact (they survive too much).
-- It makes the pvp not only "everyone on the healer" as you could easily focus some weaker DD
-- It reduces the endless "running around". Because people won't have as much time to realise they're gonna die and start to run away, they'll probably die before they can do it.
-- A good coordinated group with no healer could kill another group with a healer.

Possible ways of achieving "faster deaths". (it's just ideas, you really don't need to apply all of them)

+ Remove the nerf on Baium/AQ's critical damage. (it's 5% only... you could put it back to retail-like)
+ Tweak the enchant bonus on armor/jewels. Right now each enchant above +3 gives 6 item pdef (something like that), balls could reduce this. It would have the added benefit of reducing the gap between new players in +7 gear and old players in +20 gear.
+ Increase the bonus of weapon enchants, because in a more "standard" reality, you have a +6 weapon maybe, and are facing people in +5 or +6 sets? But if you have a +20 weapon and are facing people with +20 armors, you have only 1x offensive item enchanted to +20 but you are dealing damage to players with x5 or x6 defensive items enchanted to +20, it doesn't scale proportionally. Each +1 on a weapon could give more matck/patck.
+ Increase mages skill powers (or mcrit rate), right now they're drastically weak in damage compared to daggers, tyrants etc. But extremely tanky. If we make them weaker I think they deserve a great boost in damage.
+ Increase the Crit rate cap a little. Right now it's capped at 500 but a few classes reach the cap rather quickly and it limits their build options, they usually end up picking a little more defensive buffs since they reach the cap on offense.

Wed May 31, 2017 7:25 pm

Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2016 5:16 am
Posts: 84
Post Re: Nerf all defences

This is exactly what we need!. I dont like TW/siege much because of the endless pvp if anyone happens to die which is pretty rare instant ress and keep on going, impossible to kill any healer with so many parties.

I dont see any downside with this at all. I like limited event better because all enchants been nerfed, i might die very easy but i can also kill 2-3 people very fast. Also you're not screwed if one team have healer and the other dont, now the team with bish/es/ss have won before the event even started, same with the pvp.

i can give much moore examples but xen covered pretty much all

i hope this is done/looked into

Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:21 am
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Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:28 am
Posts: 840
Post Re: Nerf all defences
i think this endless pvp came since cancel nerf came on server. so the only way now to balance it a bit pdef and m def must get reduced. good idea.


mess with the best die like the rest

Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:34 am

Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:32 pm
Posts: 380
Post Re: Nerf all defences
I must say, I agree with the nerfing of defenses. I'd say a good baseline is look at the amount granted in OE'd armor and work backwards from there. The armor defense increases and attack increases happen per item worn (so 5:1 increases), so I estimate dialing back the bonus after +3 from 3 to 2 should show some slight but noticeable results.

Last edited by dublj on Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Thu Jun 01, 2017 6:33 am

Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:42 am
Posts: 55
Post Re: Nerf all defences
Tested on my healer with my dagger earlier..

Hit my healer with +30 backstab, max enchants on damage passives and max enchant on focus death (+95% damage) for 1,340 damage with critical wound on... That's 14-15 skills (from behind!) for a kill on healer from a maxed dagger provided the healer doesn't well, y'know heal... Just doesn't seem right to me...

My healer (like almost every other healer) is using resistance to daggers, idk, I really, really get the feeling this rebirth skill is a little strong, without it healers wouldn't be the monsters they are atm

Also another issue isn't the ++++ defence it's the amount of resurrections that happen in PvP, blessed res is damn near instant cast WITHOUT A REUSE!!!! (should be like elixirs imo) Normal resurrect skill is 6 seconds reuse? Who needs defence when anyone can res anyone else damn near instantly as many times as you please? :D

Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:14 am
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Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:18 am
Posts: 12
Post Re: Nerf all defences

Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:18 am

Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:42 am
Posts: 55
Post Re: Nerf all defences
Also mages are fine atm, perhaps a little tanky, they shouldn't be able to outheal damage when using battleheal like they do vs titans, gk, other mages but their damage is fine, mages hit tanks more than I hit them for on dagger and they have debuffs that are instant wins such as fear and silence (32s and lands @ 10-20%...)

Really mages are fine where they are atm

Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:26 am

Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2016 2:08 pm
Posts: 226
Post Re: Nerf all defences
Someone, somewhere, already tried to tweak numbers and fucked up big time, because there is no way Robe and Light armor users should have so much pdef and be that tanky.

Daggers getting over 5k pdef and have free heals since Bleed will heal them even if the skill doesn't even land.

Healers with are stupidly too tanky for a ROBE user, people can still roll with 2-3 healers and pvp becomes endless.

The archers normal attack crits so abysmally low.. my ET (lowest patk tank) can farm monsters faster than a god damn Sagitarius lol.

So many things are wrong on this server, and i feel like it's just years and years of people QQ'ing about this and that, forcing Balls to make so many changes so people would stop bitching and now were here, with a fucked up and boring PvP where everything is wrong and nothing is close to what Lineage 2 really is.


Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:16 am

Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:23 am
Posts: 32
Post Re: Nerf all defences
nerfing p def/mdef its pointless. bring back the cancel as it used to be and all will be great again.

Hit my healer with +30 backstab, max enchants on damage passives and max enchant on focus death (+95% damage) for 1,340 damage with critical wound on... That's 14-15 skills (from behind!) for a kill on healer from a maxed dagger provided the healer doesn't well, y'know heal... Just doesn't seem right to me...

u should try with a gladi sleepxD a dagger hits more with max 2k p attack than a gladi full +30 with 7,5k p attack:P

Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:21 am

Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:51 am
Posts: 232
Post Re: Nerf all defences
I think that if cancel returns to the old setting every1 will play a mage and every1 comes back here to ask for a change.....

Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:32 am
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